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That is the kind of statement that gets jazz its reputation as music for elitists.. I am sure if you asked most of the acknowedged greats of jazz if they were making music for mostly just musicians they would laugh at you for making such an outrageous statement (I know that to be true for Miles Davis, Coltrane and Armstrong,, and many others I'm sure).. Most musicians make music for anyone and everyone... Perhaps the masses do view jazz as background music,, but that is only because most only think of it that way, that is how a lot of pop culture has portrayed it.. But anyone who digs a little into jazz would find how a good chunk of jazz music is for concentrated listening (and that may be why a lot of "classic" jazz is relatively unknown to the masses)...


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I know so many people who aren't musicians and who loooove jazzmusic. you just have to relax put the music on, close your eyes, and listen....

i thought i was just stating fact when i said that about being mostly for musicians. ask someone on the street to listen to "miles smiles" and they don't understand it. that's not a bad thing, they're listening to music as something else. being a musician myself, i listen to music differently than someone who doesn't play. i think about what's going on in the music and i think that's true for most musicians, probably all. but when i play something that i thought about musically, i can't expect someone who doesn't play music to understand it, or even like it. but i expect other musicians to understand and either they like it or they don't, but at least they understand. i would rather someone understand my music and hate it, than someone not understand it and like it. that's just me of course. coltrane wanted everyone to love "ascension", but most people misunderstood it and came away hating it. too noisy. they wanted something that swung like his older stuff. of course it's all how you perceive things. they perceived it as noisy garbage. coltrane, as music for healing. most musicians will tell you they want everyone to like their music. it's you, after all. if they don't like it, they don't like you, or at least a part of you. and everyone wants to be accepted. but i don't need to tell you all this crap! so, wrapping up now, i didn't choose to have non-musicians so greatly seperated from musicians. noone's inferior or anything, so don't get me wrong. i don't think i'm superior to anyone cause i can play the geetar. in fact i feel inferior to people who work in factories all their lives to support their families. i think i should. i couldn't do it. and anyone with fingers can learn to play an instrument. i'm going to be very poor for the rest of my life. i know. it's all just music in the end though, isn't it?

i'd also like to add that the average jazzbo is more well educated musically than most rock players like Keef, god love 'im. so they would probably be working musicians.

and also, i would be right behind Keef shoveling that horse shit, and hating every minute of it.

Honestly, I don't think there's a musician in existance who only wants his/her music to be heard by other musicians.

matt21,, you don't need to rationalize your thoughts or reduce yourself to any level (high or low)... You have an opinion,, I have mine.. I disagree with yours (you may disagree with mine).. I play many instruments,, I play most of them poorly.. I am pretty handy though in the recording studio as I have an "ear" for things (and a good touch with the board)... I think I "get" what experimental jazz artists have recorded... But sometimes I don't think it is good.. I like Coltrane a lot.. I get what he was attempting with Ascension.. But I think the result was to a level of "music" that I don't enjoy.. It doesn't mean I don't get it... There are plenty of experimental (really off the chart unique) jazz and rock I do like and some I think is not good.. It's all opinion... One does not need any background as a musician, producer, music engineer, music teacher, or a student of multiple years of the study of music theory to make a choice on whether a piece of music is good or bad... All one needs is ears (or perhaps in the later years of Beethoven, the sense of touch)... I really get bugged when "musicians" think they hold some higher level of listening ability than the common man.. It was Miles Davis who said something like: it doesn't matter what kind of music or sound or style it is,,, all that matters is that it moves you... And when I see my 19 month old son dance around in utter joy to the sound of the silly (yet oh so fun) music from his kiddie show,, I know exactly what Miles meant... Just as I know when I am listening to the subtle nuances of the playing of Thelonious Monk or John Cippolina or Richard Thompson or Paul Desmond or others in rock and jazz who move me...


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i encourage people to listen my music. i don't care who you are, listen to it! listen to it all day! listen to it in the bath! listen to it on the can! put it on while you get it on! i just think that there are a lot of people who don't understand some of it. some of it is real easy to get, just shake your ass. but the stuff i spend time writing and thinking about, i don't expect non-musicians to understand. it's like when i play something funny on stage with my friends and we all laugh. just something generally funny but it happens to be in music form. noone in the audience laughs. they don't get that joke, cause it's not in words. i don't care whether they laugh or not. it's for everyone. when i said that about it being for musicians, i didn't mean that it was created for musicians, i just meant that musicians are going to be the ones to understand it and deal with it. just like my musicial joke. it's for everyone. if someone gets it great, if they don't, well, that's great too. but at least I think it's funny. and other musicians will get it, even if they don't think it's funny.

you can't deny that musicians listen differently. and that's what i'm talking about. i'm not putting myself or anyone above anyone. musicians just listen differently. i know that when i started playing, the way i listened changed completely. i'm not saying you have to understand to like. i'm just saying that people are different, and i think that's what you're saying too.

good discussion though, huh?

yeah,, great discussion.. I enjoy these types of debates...


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neuroscientist researchers at the univeristy of tuebingen have determined that musicians have brains that are "uniquely wired for sound." the brains of eight violinists with german orchestras and eight amateurs were analyzed as they silently tapped out the first 16 bars of mozart's violin concerto in g major on their instruments; they were the asked to imagine playing the music without moving their fingers. the professional musicians brains still translated the finger movements and notes into music according to brain-wave scans.

jazz times magazine, february 2002

i'm a big floyd/syd fan by the way. and as long as we don't start hating each other and stop respecting each other i think it's also a lot of fun.