actually, that's what so many people think about jazz, that it's boring. And there is indeed boring jazz. But most of it is truly amazing. I don't like the modernized stuff neither, at least most of it. There's a lot of Nu-jazz, that I wouldn't call jazz. The only thing they do is ripp things off.
Don't you like vocals copper or just some of them?
well, jazz was originally only with vocals and a bit of swingy background music, but it grew out to something very instrumental. I wish they would make more of that good swingy jazz, with a good voice in it, but they don't anymore. Maybe I will someday

I really like the funky bassy jazz kind of stuff with a good beat but I haven't really heard any except from live performances on the street or on television shows.

I guess it just doesn't get out to the people.

Yeah...there's no mechanism to hear it really unless you go to jazz clubs. Most people aren't gonna buy jazz cd's blind, especially if they've never heard any jazz at all before.

I prefer jazz with no vocals. I like old Buddy Rich and some of the big band pimp lounge $hit. I also like Miles Davis, Max Roach, all that Birdland stuff, and anything that's rooted in solos and especially drum solos.......

yeah, I understand, since you're a drummer yourself. I like them both actually, it depends on wath mood I'm in.

I agree. Jazz, like classical music, demands a lot of the listener. It's complicated stuff, and forces the listener to engage the mind, to follow the changes carefully, listen for the subtle things, how an improvisational solo is building on the original melody or responding to the harmonic environment, how the band members are interacting and responding to or reacting to each other, that sort of thing.

Jazz has always thrived in intellectual environments, and still does, just as classical music is popular among intellectuals.

maybe I'm intelligent!!!!
nope, I'm just blond and love jazz...

I disagree. Alot of Jazz is repetitive. It's all frestylin' while each other does what ever they want while it's in the same key. Complicated? Intellectual environments?
It's not as complicated as alot of the crazy math-rock and death metal I listen to. I guarentee you that. I'm a drummer (and a damn good one) and I've played jazz,hip-hop,funk,rock,metal,experimental, etc......and I can tell you from experience. Now I know, I'm just a drummer, and alot of the complicated stuff you mention comes from the other musicians I guess. All those melodies. But Jazz is also the kind of music that snobby, stuck-up, music "intellectuals" listen to just BECAUSE they wanna listen to something that's "smarter".......And I disagree that Jazz demands alot of the listener. It's backround music. I could take a poll, and play less than 10 "jazz" tracks by different artists, and people wouldn't be able to tell me the difference. (Jazz without vocals) Jazz isn't all that ground-breaking........
Listening to Jazz cause it's for "the intellectuals is almost like wearing glasses to look smart, even though you don't have a prescription.

OK, thanx for ruining it, for one moment I thought I was intelligent
I think you're right :cop:, I mean, it used to be very popular, jazz music, a lot of people listened to it, and it wasn't a thing about being intelectual, it was the music itself, the swing, the bossanova, everything.

math rock may be complex, but it's the most annoying sub-genre to ever exist. it's needlessly complex and loses the artistic expressionism. but that's straying from the point.

Jazz has always been popular everywhere EXCEPT the mainstream, which is why it's so confusing. When it began, it was the music of lower-class blacks, and people were opposed to and afraid of it because of the racism of the time. But it also became quite popular among the urban upper class, where people (legitimately or not) thought that they had discovered the new form of high culture. When jazz got commercialized briefly in the 20s for mass consumption, it lost most of what had made it relevant in the first place (the passion), which is the problem that mainstream jazz has today. The "good" jazz is still pretty much ignored except for lower-class blacks and upper-class "cultured" whites.

While jazz may not be the only complex form of music, and while its complexity may not make it great, it IS better enjoyed/appreciated when you understand the complexity.