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Old 06-16-2009, 01:11 PM   #21
Roivas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivies
Hello,

I would recommend you, the dissonances quartet from W.A. Mozart.
When it has been performed for the first time, the conductor fixed some "harmonic faults" believing that mozart made mistakes...
It was a very modern language at this time.

String quartets don't have conductors. What exactly happened? I didn't know about someone correcting Mozart's "mistakes".
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roivas
String quartets don't have conductors. What exactly happened? I didn't know about someone correcting Mozart's "mistakes".

The first violin did that. Dissonances were unusual in "classical style"
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:47 PM   #23
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1. He/she means Mozart's String Quartet No. 19 in C Major....which of course I already mentioned before.


2. As I know you know....dissonance has been part of Western Music far longer than Mozart. For example, Bach used it a good deal. Mozart just broke off a good deal more than normal for No. 19 at the start.

3. At the time a great many music dealers in Italy actually returned the scores to the publisher because they thought the all chromaticisms were mistakes....the Hungarian Prince Grassalokovics was so angry over the it's "tonal audacities" that he actually tore out the parts from which his personal quartet were performing....even Haydn (to whom it was one of the 6 String Quartets dedicated to him) was initially shocked....then, he defended Mozart by saying, “Well, if Mozart wrote it, he must have meant it.”
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:00 PM   #24
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Bach never used harmonic dissonances but dissonances coming from counterpoint. The mozart's quartet is not counterpoint but real dissonant harmony which was very exceptionnal in classical style.
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:55 PM   #25
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The famous dissonances in Mozart's string quartet seem to resolve according to the rules of counterpoint to me.
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:14 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Roivas
The famous dissonances in Mozart's string quartet seem to resolve according to the rules of counterpoint to me.

Not always. Please take a look to the score analysis...
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by vivies
Not always. Please take a look to the score analysis...

Okay, well...do you have one in mind?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "harmonic dissonance", but it sounds interesting.

I don't have any formal composition training and music terminology sometimes seems to mean different things to different people.

If you don't want to open a whole can of worms you can just link me to a site or whatever. These discussions often tend to go around in circles.

Nice talking with you.
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:04 PM   #28
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Should be interesting....since I can't tell what he/she is talking about or even knows....since he/she is now also changing the initial comment.


Mozart's String Quartet #19 has 822 measures....and of that only the first 22 Measures are why it's been nicknamed "The Dissonance". He uses a great deal of counterpoint in the first movement, afterwards.


It is also #19 that has the only slow introduction in the last 10 of Mozart’s string quartets. It's these contrasts in tempos which creates the major contrast between the darkness of the quartet’s introduction and its later burst of brightness....which has had people questioning Mozart’s reasons ever since.


One of my favorite bits of hyperbole on the subject has been....



"Without knowing precisely where we are, we know that we are in an alien universe. Laocoon is in the grip of the writhing serpents. Reality has been defamiliarized, the uncanny has supplanted the commonplace. In this introduction, Mozart has simulated the transitions from darkness to light, from the underworld to the surface, from the id to the ego. For, whatever our metaphoric frame, this music is ultimately about confinement and emergence. And now the Allegro theme emerges soaring and liberated, having already achieved release, transcended the fear of annihilation, freed itself from a burdensome confinement, shed the harmonic ambiguities, chromaticism, and pungent dissonances of the Adagio in favor of the simple brightness of an achieved C major."

--Maynard Solomon in Mozart: A Life.


Something you would really expect Metaphysical panbient to drop if he ever heard it.




By the way, for those amongst you who can read music.



http://tinyurl.com/m7nzgk



Anyone interested in the individual parts of the instruments or others of the String Quartets can check here....


http://opensourcemusic.org/?p=26
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:28 PM   #29
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By the way, Geryon....


Quote:
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Sometime in my lifetime would be nice!
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Old 06-18-2009, 01:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roivas
Okay, well...do you have one in mind?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "harmonic dissonance", but it sounds interesting.

I don't have any formal composition training and music terminology sometimes seems to mean different things to different people.

If you don't want to open a whole can of worms you can just link me to a site or whatever. These discussions often tend to go around in circles.

Nice talking with you.

Hello,

Music analysis is precise and accurate, above all in music styles like classical. If "different people" understand different things, it's up to them.
In order to be clear, Harmonic dissonances ( not coming from counterpoint writing, only came at the end of the 19th century.
So finding them in classical period is very exceptionnal. This is Mozart's genious.
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