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02-27-2008, 10:05 PM
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#11
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Redrum, sir, is murder.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ottawa
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Originally Posted by Roivas
Cool.
Are you in school for music?
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Not yet, but I hope to be next. I've had to content myself with my High School Theory Class (we've done some analysis, Cadences and Periods, Seventh Chord Inversions in composition, and a chorale or two. Beyond that, minimal sight singing and some ear training). I confess, though, that most of what I know isn't exactly academic. It's mostly practical stuff I've picked up from my teacher and other guys I know who go to Carleton U
Were/are you?
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02-28-2008, 11:13 AM
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#12
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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I took private composition lessons. Mostly self-taught, though.
If you can find a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd edition of Walter Piston's "Harmony" used, get it.
I found my hardcover 3rd ed. a few years ago in a used book store for $5.
Just found another recently for $3. When I see a good, inexpensive harmony book, I buy 'em to give to people.
Also, anytime you see a book by Percy Goetschius used, grab it. He's writes very clearly. Counterpoint, harmony, form.
These are out of print, but I see them around once and a while.
The problem with college textbooks in that you don't know what you're getting. The student has little choice but to assume that the book is authoritative.
Arnold Schoenberg wrote a book a couple harmony books. He was a professor at UCLA and was apalled at how behind the students were (see: Structural Functions of Harmony).
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To the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation
-Kaikhosru Sorabji
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02-28-2008, 11:28 AM
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#13
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Redrum, sir, is murder.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ottawa
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Agreed. Is that last one on his serialist approach? I like that he approaches composition more as a long line of voice leading, I'd love to find something with some insight into that. I'll certainly keep my eye open for the Pistons, maybe move on to the others once I've gone through them.
One thing I've always been curious about are these classical substitutions I always hear about, like Neopolitan Sixth and Augmented Sixth. They're far ahead of where we got in the course though, at least in terms of the course.
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Album of the Week: Russell Malone - Live at Jazz Standard
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02-28-2008, 11:45 AM
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#14
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by Ratt In Clothes
Agreed. Is that last one on his serialist approach? I like that he approaches composition more as a long line of voice leading, I'd love to find something with some insight into that. I'll certainly keep my eye open for the Pistons, maybe move on to the others once I've gone through them.
One thing I've always been curious about are these classical substitutions I always hear about, like Neopolitan Sixth and Augmented Sixth. They're far ahead of where we got in the course though, at least in terms of the course.
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No, Structural Functions is his, more-or-less, unique approach to "common practice" (19th century) harmony. Examples are taken from Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner. He actually doesn't have a textbook on his "system of composing with twelve tones" (his own phrase).
Popular "harmonic analysis" makes the aug6 out to be such a strange thing.
When you get into figured bass (which they don't really teach in school), you'll see that it was very common waay back in the day and they seemed to have gotten by rather well without French/German/Italian/Hollywood/Culver City sixth-chord abstractions. Even Schoenberg said: "They all have similar functions, so why all the names?"
The major problem I have with this is that it implies that six, four-three, and six-five chords are the same thing.
For "serialist" insight, get Simple Composition by Charles Wuorinen and Serial Composition by Reginald Smith Brindle
__________________
To the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation
-Kaikhosru Sorabji
Last edited by Roivas : 02-28-2008 at 11:55 AM.
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02-28-2008, 12:13 PM
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#15
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there is only one take
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: canada
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i always dig on reading these theory threads but it's WAY beyond my methods of 'plugging and turning up' or the 'i'll use my index finger as a capo and form open chord shapes with my other 3 fingers' hehe
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02-28-2008, 12:30 PM
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#16
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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Well, I don't think about this stuff when I'm playing rock music either.
__________________
To the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation
-Kaikhosru Sorabji
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02-28-2008, 01:54 PM
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#17
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there is only one take
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: canada
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i just don't think when i'm playing music period hehe.
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02-28-2008, 05:20 PM
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#18
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Redrum, sir, is murder.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ottawa
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Originally Posted by Roivas
No, Structural Functions is his, more-or-less, unique approach to "common practice" (19th century) harmony. Examples are taken from Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner. He actually doesn't have a textbook on his "system of composing with twelve tones" (his own phrase).
Popular "harmonic analysis" makes the aug6 out to be such a strange thing.
When you get into figured bass (which they don't really teach in school), you'll see that it was very common waay back in the day and they seemed to have gotten by rather well without French/German/Italian/Hollywood/Culver City sixth-chord abstractions. Even Schoenberg said: "They all have similar functions, so why all the names?"
The major problem I have with this is that it implies that six, four-three, and six-five chords are the same thing.
For "serialist" insight, get Simple Composition by Charles Wuorinen and Serial Composition by Reginald Smith Brindle
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Thanks for the recommendations man, I really aprreciate it.
Incidentally, all the stuff we learned in terms of composition was in figured bass. I was curious about the Italian Sixths because I like the way they sound, my ear could just never tell me how they were made
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Originally Posted by panbient
i just don't think when i'm playing music period hehe.
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That's the best way to do it 
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Album of the Week: Russell Malone - Live at Jazz Standard
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02-28-2008, 06:32 PM
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#19
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by Ratt In Clothes
Incidentally, all the stuff we learned in terms of composition was in figured bass. I was curious about the Italian Sixths because I like the way they sound, my ear could just never tell me how they were made
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You always get a little figured bass, 6/4 chords and other basic inversions. The more involved stuff is treated as a special field.
Anyway:
The Augmented Sixth with major Third ("Italian Sixth"):
This chord occurs in minor keys on the unraised submediant (in C minor, the bass is on Ab). The third is always doubled in four part harmony. The raised sixth goes a step up, the bass goes a step down. No preparation is needed.
The French Sixth has an additional augmented fourth and the German Sixth has an additional perfect fifth.
WooHoo!
__________________
To the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation
-Kaikhosru Sorabji
Last edited by Roivas : 02-28-2008 at 06:36 PM.
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