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01-21-2008, 11:25 AM
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#11
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by pseudonymous
Maybe I'm not getting exactly what you mean, but as far as I can understand, you are saying that John Cage was lazy and didn't do his homework?
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One of his composition teachers, Arnold Schoenberg, thought so.
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01-21-2008, 11:36 AM
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#12
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by Seerix
Organzied sounds for the purpose of entertainment, even one's own. This is how I have always described music.
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What about ritualistic music?
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To the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation
-Kaikhosru Sorabji
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01-21-2008, 12:29 PM
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#13
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Drinker and Driver
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Originally Posted by Roivas
What about ritualistic music?
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How about composition of sound with a purpose. Like you noted, music isn't always merely entertainment but can serve other uses.
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01-21-2008, 12:34 PM
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#14
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A Dying Breed
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Where no one will find me.
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Prayer.
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Down with Lee Myung-bak
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01-21-2008, 06:44 PM
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#15
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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How can you find an absolute definition for such an etymologically strange word? Once you try and put a boundary on it, someone's going to move it.
Why is John Cage seen as such a revolutionary? How much more abstract can you get than with the ancient Greek's humanly inaudible "Music of the Spheres"?
It was stated earlier that a baby crying isn't music.
Well, how many times has such a sound been recorded and used in commercial rock recordings? Second track on The Wall is probably the most obvious.
If some concept artist/composer put a bunch of neglected babies on a concert hall stage for twenty minutes, I'm sure pretty much all of them would start crying.
You would then hear recognizable intervals, beats, rhythms occurring between the crossings and interruptions of their voices. At that point, you'd have to admit it's fairly musical.
I hope I didn't give anyone any ideas.
__________________
To the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation
-Kaikhosru Sorabji
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01-21-2008, 07:34 PM
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#16
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Registered User
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Originally Posted by Roivas
How can you find an absolute definition for such an etymologically strange word? Once you try and put a boundary on it, someone's going to move it.
Why is John Cage seen as such a revolutionary? How much more abstract can you get than with the ancient Greek's humanly inaudible "Music of the Spheres"?
It was stated earlier that a baby crying isn't music.
Well, how many times has such a sound been recorded and used in commercial rock recordings? Second track on The Wall is probably the most obvious.
If some concept artist/composer put a bunch of neglected babies on a concert hall stage for twenty minutes, I'm sure pretty much all of them would start crying.
You would then hear recognizable intervals, beats, rhythms occurring between the crossings and interruptions of their voices. At that point, you'd have to admit it's fairly musical.
I hope I didn't give anyone any ideas.
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Interesting points you have there.
Well, I really don't think there is out there an absolute definition for this word, but maybe at least it makes you think a little.
I never said John Cage was that revolutionary, in fact I don't think of anybody who is that revolutionary, there are only small steps in music, and sometimes the steps even go backwards.
Crying isn't music. You can use a baby's crying to make music, which is different.
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01-21-2008, 07:50 PM
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#17
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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Crying has pitch, duration, timbre, rhythm, volume...etc
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To the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation
-Kaikhosru Sorabji
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01-21-2008, 08:04 PM
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#18
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Registered User
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Yes, and that's exactly why you can use a baby's crying to make music, but you can't tell me that every time you hear a baby cry, you call it music, or do you?
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01-22-2008, 11:01 AM
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#19
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Shoes for the Dead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
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I don't rack my brains over it.
Can you explain why it's not music?
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To the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation
-Kaikhosru Sorabji
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01-22-2008, 11:19 AM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Norway
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Haven't we had this discussion a million times already? It's like asking some philosophical question, like, "how do we really know we exist" or "what is ethics?". There's never a definition everyone can agree on.
Thankfully noones enjoyment of music has ever depended on their ability to define it.
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net stop wuauserv
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