I think this thread has become political.

He's good, cranky as ever, engaged, his Old Man is here for a visit, he's listening to Pinback and Do Make Say Think on a regular basis. Did I mention cranky as ever?
He'll be 31 next month.

Yep.



Classic. Or should I say classique.

Ooops, sorry about your name. I'll better call you Satch then .

I really didn't understand about that Satchmo horde members, but nevermind I guess.

Big list you have there Satch, I'll check out some of those artists.

To be honest with you, I really dig that Coltrane guy in some of the songs you put there. On the other hand, Miles Davis now that's one I knew about! I saw an album of his on the Rolling Stone Magazine of the best ever albums, I haven't listened to it yet but I surely will now.

Anyway I still don't see anything wrong with Kenny G, but it's Ok for me if you guys don't like it.

Oh and Outkast is awesome too!!

On the previous post I forgot to mention the Black Eyed Peas, do you guys think they suck too?

Oh, and I almost forgot to ask what is jazz to all of you guys?

1. When you have as many children as Satchmo....you call them a horde.


2. That would be Kind of Blue....which is on the list of suggestions I posted above. It came in 12th on that list. So What was originally recorded on Kind of Blue. You will also find Coltrane's A Love Supreme on that same Rolling Stone List....it was 47th.


Here are all the Jazz recordings which made the list. Except the Getz/Gilberto all of whom are on the list I posted for you above.


12. Kind of Blue, Miles Davis
47. A Love Supreme, John Coltrane
94. Bitches Brew, Miles Davis
102. Giant Steps, John Coltrane
246. The Shape of Jazz to Come, Ornette Coleman
356. Sketches of Spain, Miles Davis
454. Getz/Gilberto, Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto Featuring Antonio Carlos Jobim




3. Besides the obvious talent difference between DA MAN and Kenny the biggest difference is one improvises, which is the core of all Jazz (no matter the sub-genre) and one sticks mostly to predictable melody statements.


Everything but the melody in Jazz is improvised. * So in those clips of Coltrane and the others....they're improvising and creating most of what you're seeing/hearing as they're playing. It takes incredible talent to be able to improvise and it takes even rarer talent to do it on that scale and for that long.


Coltrane would solo (as in improvise) for up to an hour at times. For example, the recorded version of My Favorite Things was 13:47, but live it just got longer and longer over the remaining years. Going anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour. It takes a lot of endurance to do that. Keep in mind that in his case that he died from liver cancer and played like that up until 4 months before his death. His energy waned in the final two months in which he played and he would die 2 months after his last recordings. He didn't even know he had liver cancer until about 6 months before he died.


Now listening to someone do that isn't something for someone with a short attention span or doesn't like music to be too complicated....that's where Smooth Jazz and others like Kenny G came in.


Outside of the songs/compositions being played by Kenny G and other Smooth Jazz musicians....no matter how many years apart.....one performance will be no different than any other performance in terms of how those songs/compositions are played. With Jazz musicians and especially the best....almost every performance will be different in every set of every day's performance.


To understand what I mean.....when you get Kind of Blue and hear So What....go and find a video of it and you will find outside of the melody the rest will be different in every video. And you can do that with any recording you get that there is a video of the songs on youtube.


Which goes back to my Britney Spears comparison. You called her plastic....well to Jazz fans Smooth Jazz is similar to that and Corporate Rock, most Mainstream music, etc....it's the dumbing down of music. The Lowest Common Denominator Factor or Cookie Cutter Factor if you want.




* Now there're sub-genres of Jazz were you wont find much if any melody or written parts of the song/composition....as in, Avant-Garde, Free Jazz, and Free Improv. Of those three Avant-Garde will still be the most melodic.....but in Free Improv it would only happen by some aligning of the stars situation.


Coltrane went through several phases in his career that started in Bop/Hard Bop and ended up very close to Free Improv. by the time of his death.

Miles went through several sub-genres in his career, as well.


There are only a handful that would do this.

P.S. Now if you really want to learn about Jazz and the other genres of music which isn't MTV/Mainstream driven....you found the right place. Remember it's called Radiomute for a reason.

The only genre of music which isn't discussed much is THE ULTIMATE HORROR.


If you stick around long enough and get over a certain amount of posts you will be able to see the entire board....and you will find other subjects that are discussed beside music.

There are a good man Grasshoppas and posters who have a great deal of knowledge on this board and when the they have no idea there is He who drops knowledge.

this is definitely my bag when it comes to playing music although i don't think anyone in their right mind would call my band 'jazz'

personally i don't really see why melody has to be so rare within free improv. it's a matter of listening to everyone else instead of yourself and if you're lucky enough to find a few other musicians you can trust and respect enough to do the same then the melody should show itself through the spaces in the combined rhythms of the individual performers. the melody within improvised music is generally felt a lot more than it is heard.

the easiest way i can describe playing improvised music is like swimming underwater. when it clicks your ego shuts up and you're just playing the music as you feel it all around you. every now and again you need to come up for air, but like any form of meditation (direct or indirect) the more you do it the better you get at it.

With post # 35 you will be able to realize that He who Drops Knowledge knows of what he is talking about.

Maybe because melody can sometimes be a limitation to reach anywhere you want.

yeah i hear you on that. my main gripe with most free improv i hear though is that it seems like most of the performers are simply improvising in their own light as opposed to working together as a unit. they're more hung up on the idea of improvising their own voice rather than improvising as part of the combined whole of the band they're within. it's like when people hear melody they think structure and when they hear atonalities they think improvisation and most improvisers seem to cater to that stereotype. or maybe i'm the stereotyper in this situation.