I'm with Seba on this one. Bonzo was a hard hitter and his fills were mostly unique and well timed, but I find him to be only a few notches above competent. I think the subtlty of Ginger Baker's playing outwits the testosterone of Bonzo's.

Ginger Baker was more technically skilled, but he wasn't really anything new, just applying some jazz elements to rock music. The key idea to appreciating John Bonham's importance is comparing drumming before Led Zeppelin's debut to drumming afterwards. The only musicians I can think of off the top of my head to inspire such a black-and-white, widespread new sound in drumming are Gene Krupa, Kenny Clarke and Max Roach, and James Brown. That Bonham was a hard hitter is the central aspect of his influence - absolutely no one, to my knowledge (I'll really have to eat my words if someone comes up with someone who did ) sounded anything like him before Led Zeppelin came around, while in the nearly 45 years since, that kind of drumming has been all over the place.

Well, I think the prime difference between Bonzo and the other (MASTERS!) you mentioned is that Bonzo was a percussionist in the traditional sense and that's all. The others had the uncanny and, thankfully, godlike ability to turn the drums into a melodic instrument. Roach (who I know we share a strong love for; the drum also waltzes...) created a slick smooth melody on the drums that was completely absent from Bonzo's sound.

By the way I'm understanding your post, you're saying that drums can only be a melodic instrument if played slick and smoothly? Would you say the same for any other instrument? I wouldn't say that Bonham is any less of a "musician" on the drums than Roach, Clarke, Krupa, etc. I'm really not sure what your reasoning for that is.

I would say that the way Bonham's drums were recorded and mixed were by far more important than anything he actually played.

Although, to counter TheZola's "well timed" comment, if anything, Bonzo was influential for his lack of time, always playing with the groove and moving around the beat.

Of course Bonham was great, all I said was that he is over-rated. You can be great and still over-rated. I take issue with any musician who is lauded as "the best ever" by people who've heard very little music, taking their cues from Rolling Stone or VH1.

Bonham was an excellent drummer but he couldn't improvise to save his life....which is why Moby Dick was always the time to go for a bathroom break during concerts.


However, within the context of a group performance he was one of the best. He had a feel for the groove and was subtle within the type of music Zeppelin was playing....this is what most of the clones have never noticed. They all copied the power and speed but left out most if not all of the rest.


Keep in mind his idols were Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich....which most after him (especially now) have no idea about. He incorporated what Krupa and Rich did within the context of his playing for the music Zeppelin played.

One more point about Bonham....it now takes drummers with two bass drums to do what he did with one. He kept trying to add a second bass drum during the tours and the other three would keep having them removed.



Of course, I wouldn't pick a single one of the best rock drummers over the Jazz drummers.


Don't even get me started on when Ginger Baker actually challenged Elvin "DA MAN" Jones to a drum-off.


Whenever you see lists of the Best Rock Drummers most of them are those who grew up listening to Jazz drummers.

Please tell me there's a video of this.

No video....this is back in 1969 after Baker was in Cream.





Albert Goldman did what was at the time a famous blind taste test of then-hot Rock drummers which he wrote up for Life. DA MAN liked Keith Moon and said, “The man is a drummer.�

On the other hand, when they played for him Cream, he said “They should make him an astronaut and lose his ass.�

This made it's way to Baker and he then challenged DA MAN to a drum battle in London. Ginger showed up with an arsenal of umpteen drums and cymbals, which takes him a while to set up. DA MAN shows up with only the standard four-piece kit plus cymbals.


Luckily for Baker it wasn't a gunfight....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74MvcFBLJdY

What the hell...

...I need to get that. Immediately.

From the link...

I think this is the only good comment I've ever read on YouTue:

"Simple Lesson: Fuck with Elvin and you die."