I think about this sometimes, and I honestly feel that one of the things that has hurt Jazz in general is the transition of Jazz from a popular art form to something much closer to an academic one. Particularly the whole notion of Jazz "schools" -- back in the day, the greats just played the music that was in them...hell, a good number of them couldn't even read music...they didn't go to college to study the thing, they just did it...and I think it's this attitude that has been appropriated by rock music..and why rock is so much more of a popular style amoung players and listeners alike, because, ironically, rock has become much more "free" as a musical approach than Jazz.

As a crappy amateur player, I like to play some things that I think are "jazzy", I improvise most everything, even when I'm trying to compose, but it's even been instilled in my mind that to play REAL jazz is something of an unattainable right afforded to only a small elite. Is this an unnatural way of thinking about Jazz or are the Wynton Marsalises of the world the only true holders of the secrets to real Jazz? I hope not.

I mean, I know there are specific techniques to playing certain styles (Bop, Modal, etc...), but I think th essential essence of Jazz is something that can't be tought.

Thoughts?

1. What hurt Jazz's popularity with the masses is the same thing that made it big in the first place.....the masses couldn't dance to it anymore. It's also a lot easier for the masses to listen to Rock and Rap than it is to listen to Jazz and Classical.


2. Most Jazz fans don't even bother with Marsalis or his ilk.


3. It's been going on since the days of Classical. Each generation wants their own Genre/sub-genre of music. Jazz superseded Classical in popularity and Rock superseded Jazz and Rap has superseded Rock and Rap is already dying. You even have had sub-genres of Genres becoming more popular than.


You will notice that neither Rock or Rap years of dominance has come anywhere close to Classical or Jazz.




4. Rock being more "Free" than Jazz is a joke.



P.S.


“If you have to ask what Jazz is, you'll never know.�

“There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them.�


Louis Armstrong

Points taken, although I stand by the Rock comment. I didn't mean Rock is more free than Jazz in the improvisational sense, but that it has fewer boundaries stylistically, exemplified by it's ridiculous amount of variation. You can call just about anything Rock...

I disagree, I think what really killed Jazz and Classical music was the inherent pretentiousness in most of each respective genre's listeners. Not to mention that which genre dominates what is irrelevant as long as what is played has meaning to the player. All genres are equally free, it depends on what the person wants to do with it. That said I absolutely love Jazz, but I would seriously question any attempt to make one genre seem superior to another.

Anyway, to the original poster. Don't worry about if what you're playing is Jazz or not, just play what you feel, and whatever comes out, if it's really an expression of yourself, will be appropriate.

Ok, I'm sorry, but you've used the "P" word twice since you've arrived. I can't interact with you further. Have a nice day.

in my head the real thing that sets jazz apart from other styles is that the musicians generally have a better understanding of the relation of music to the human condition. it's not about just playing a bunch of random notes through a horn like some people think, but about the musicians attempt to express the human condition through the native language of all life in the universe.

whether the musician is able to consciously grasp that idea or if it simply percolates just below the surface is rather irrelevant so long as they're able to shove their ego to the side and tap into it when they play. to me the idea that the real jazz musicians 'get it' is when they have a natural focus on the 2 rather than the 1. the first note is the pandora's box, it's a necessary irrelevance because without the 2nd note to establish the context of rhythm harmony and melody to further the life of the music the first note is dead as soon as it's played.

just have to add my own personal favourite quote on music on the same lines as satchmo's

"when you hear music, after it's over, it's gone, in the air. you can never capture it again."

- eric dolphy

Yeah, like Rock fans are not just if not more pretentious. Grasshoppa Seba, just how many times have you been called pretentious on this board alone?




Jazz like Classical before it started out as music that entertained and allowed them to dance. As in the relationship of dance to sex. In Jazz's case it started out in whorehouses and moved to dance halls. The musicians were considered entertainers first and musicians second. The people dug the "Hot" music they could dance to.

That changed with Bop. The musicians considered themselves "Artists" and behaved as such and their music wasn't meant to be danced to but listened to. That's before even bringing up the advent of Avant-Garde, Free Jazz/Free Improv.

You still had the Big Bands like Ellington and Basie up until their deaths, but only the really best bands could sustain themselves on the road and they had to tour and record almost constantly to survive.....and even though Louis Armstrong had become more commercial....he was still Satchmo and could fill up anywhere up until his death. The same with Miles and Dizzy, however, only a really small minority of musicians could do this post-Rock. Some like Herbie Hancock just went for the Benjamins altogether.

Radio helped keep it going up until Rock arrived....and just like with the others before them it and Rap got people to dance at first.

When you consider the amount of Rock and Rap being recorded to that of Classical and Jazz....the wasteland factor (especially in Rap) has been much greater with each passing year. Unfortunately, Rap/Hip-Hop has gone the way of Punk and the Dodo. It's there that you will now find the biggest wasteland of recordings being released.

All this hasn't kept Classical, Jazz, Rock and to a very limited degree Rap/Hip-Hop from continuing to have excellent musicians and have great music being written and/or recorded. Just take a look at any of my end of year lists and you can see that.

The majority of people don't want to listen to their parents music. While the majority of parents will always find their children's music to be either not as good as the music they grew up with or bad (as in Devil's music) for their children. It's been going on since the the first Caveman started banging on those logs with bones.


However, there will always be a minority of people with open minds who just want to listen to good music no matter the genre or the time period it was made.


All this isn't even limited to music. You can say the same thing about any of the Arts.







“Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind.�

— Gioachino Antonio Rossini


+


"There are two kinds of music - good music, and the other kind."


— Duke Ellington

I dont think there's a correct way to play Jazz.
I consider Jazz as an artform.
Is there a correct way to create art?

yes

And how is that?