I visit these forums very often but rarely post. That introduction aside...

There's an issue in relation to which I would like to hear your opinions for the purpose of settling a small argument with a friend of mine. I have my own view (easy answer for me!) but that can come later...

The question is this: between the Coltrane "Prestige Recordings" Box Set (16 CD) and the Coltrane "Complete Prestige Recordings" Box Set (18 CD Japan Import), which one is superior?

As Satchmo is most probably aware, the extra 2 CDs in the Japanese Import contains 26 Japanese-exclusive tracks. But which Box Set of the two is the superior one? Please give reasons for your views.

I'm not Satchmo, but is there any real reason why less Coltrane would be superior to more Coltrane?

Since I'm a huge Coltrane fan, I would say without hesitation that more Coltrane is better for all.

But if I understand the opposing argument correctly, it turns upon the quality (in all respects) and effect of the additional tracks themselves on the Box Set as a whole.

I should say no more. Otherwise I'm sure I would attract allegations that I'm swaying the argument. So I'll let you guys answer.

But so far, I like your response, jazzfromhell!

1. Primarly? Probably aware? If anyone else on this board would have been able to drop the knowledge you seek; I would have retired and made them Satchmo.

2. You may not post often, but I remember you. Who can forget the classic post asking the others who were discussing Tool, if it was the band or Matthew Gill being discussed.


Now on to the knowledge:


1. First off.....while Grasshoppa Jazzfromhell's post, which I will paraphrase as you can never have enough Coltrane is accurate. In this case however, it's not more Coltrane.

The original "Complete" Prestige Box was not complete. It didn't include any of the material he recorded as part of Miles' First Quintet. That was included in Miles' Prestige boxset and on the individual records. I am talking about the New Miles Davis Quintet, Cookin', Relaxin', Steamin', Workin', Miles Davis and the Modern Jazz Giants,



2. Now the difference in sound is another story altogether. This particular boxset has been remastered in K2 20 bit....so it's going to sound a lot better than the much older version.



3. Keep in mind that everything in both the Miles and Coltrane sets have been remastered and re-released several times, as one if not all of these remasterings.

20 Bit
K2 20 Bit
XRCD
Hybrid SACD
RVG - Since Concord bought the label they have been once again reissuing them and like Blue Note having RVG remaster them.


Most of the Japanese remasters have always sounded better than their U.S. versions, but are a lot more expensive being imports.

Also, back in the day the Japanese remasters wouldn't include any alternate takes and/or unreleased tracks.....while the U.S. versions would have those.


Now back to the Miles' First Quintet recordings. A couple years ago Concord remastered and re-released them for the 10,000th time as part of a box set. It's called The Legendary Prestige Quintet Sessions. This time adding in performances from 3 different live performances (including their first live televised performance on Steve Allen's Tonight Show) to lure in those that have bought them countless times before. The performances were previoulsy available before as a bootleg, which you could probably easily find on some torrent site.


If you're looking for best sounding and/or imports....just stick to the Hybrid SACD and/or XRCD. Otherwise, the original K2 20 bit remasters will be fine. Hopefully you were able to get in on last summer's Concord blow-out sale. You could have gotten all those for $2.99 each.

With Concord trying to get suckers to once again buy the same stuff by using RVG....and the K2 being out of print, what you find is what is left.

Wow, thanks. You killed it! That was everything I wanted. And a lot more. Much respect.

To put the nail in the coffin of this argument, I would just like to know your thoughts on the additional tracks themselves.

1. It's some killer music....Coltrane was just getting into his Sheets of Music phase when he joined Miles' First Quintet. So, you get to hear that evolve.


Interesting story about those recordings. They were released a couple years after they were recorded. Miles was under contract with Prestige and was just recovering from his Heroin addiction. He performed at the 1954 Newport Jazz Festival. George Avakian was at the performance and decided to sign Miles, but he was still under contract with Prestige for 5 recordings. He also didn't have a working band at the time.


He put together the First Quintet....although Sonny Rollins was his first choice on Saxophone. He however was recovering from his own addiction, so Miles picked Coltrane.


In the meantime Columbia and Prestige came to an agreement about Miles contract. Miles would record the 5 recordings, which he did in 2-days and Prestige would sit on the recordings. Bob Weinstock the owner of Prestige realized that Columbia would market Miles in a way he could never afford. Thus he released those now classic recordings when Miles recordings with Columbia were taking off....making more money in the process than if he hadn't agreed to the deal.


2. You're welcome.

Thanks, Satchmo. My friend knows what a Coltrane fan I am, so he needed a well-informed, more objective opinion to seal the deal, as it were. Of course, he already has the "Prestige Recordings" and was debating whether the Japanese import with the additional tracks would make for a better box set.

Of course it would, but the considerations he threw in were that of price and the quality of the additional tracks. Thanks for nailing it.

Additionally, I decided that this would be the best place to get an answer since we have such a knowledgeable bunch over here. And from reading your other posts, I was confident I'd be able to get an answer. That settles it then.

You're welcome, but like I said it's all been released countless times since the original box set as invividual recordings and that includes his recordings with Miles.


If price is the issue, he should just stick to used versions of Miles' records that make up the "additional" tracks.



If he doesn't want to upgrade all the Coltrane and is just interested in his recording with Miles, he could just get a used copy of The Legendary Prestige Quintet Sessions....and that way get the live recordings, as well. Making it a total of 42 extra tracks not in the original Coltrane Prestige boxset. Although, like the boxsets they're in chronological order and not in the order they were originally released on the individual records.

I'm aware of that. All the tracks (save one) are found in the Legendary Prestige Quntet Box Set. The exception ("Salt Peanuts")may be found in Miles' "Steamin' With the Miles Davis Quintet".

The point you made about quality is key.

The depending on which remasater it happens to be the quality on the individual reissues is great to excellent....so once again, if he can get the individual releases at a cheaper price there really is no need to get the new box.