I got this from his myspace although it is on amontobin.com:


On leaked copies of foley room

Here is a note from Amon's Logbook at amontobin.com

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march 5, 2007
on leaked copies of foley room:

well the debate about illegal downloads has obviously been raging for some time. some blame it for the crisis the music industry is currently facing, others herald this as a new utopian era for the consumer. contrary to the oversimplified views sighted by both ends of the spectrum I believe this to be a fairly complex issue with radically different implications for different artists and labels.

with this in mind I see no point in entering into debate on the general issue here. nor would I consider it my place to tell people what they should or shouldn't do. all I can comment on with any certainty is how all this has affected me personally and in light of my nearing release this might be of interest to those of you who've expressed an interest in my music.

over the last few months I've received a surprising amount of mail from people who'd downloaded 'foley room'. the comments are very positive and many encourage me to "keep on doing what you're doing" for which I am thankful.

today, the release date for my album, it's unlikely that you will see it in most high street shops and after the initial run it's unlikely that you will be able to order a copy even from online stores. this is because in-spite of more people having access to and apparently listening to my music than ever before, the predicted sales of the record were so low that it didn't justify the manufacture or distribution to any significant level. strange? not when you consider how hard it might be to convince any retail outlet, physical or digital, that they should try and sell something everybody could already get for free months beforehand.

so what does this mean in the wider context? who the fuck knows. like I say I won't speculate on the wider picture and you can draw your own conclusions as to what this means with regards to my own future output. again I stress that I'm not talking about what should happen here. I'm not saying I should be able to 'keep on doing what I'm doing' or even that my record deserves to be bought. all I'm saying, mainly for the benefit of those who might otherwise have been unaware, is that if you personally like what I do and wish to continue hearing more then the only way that will happen is if you support it.





I think it all makes sense and is completely logical, its just sad to read this from a talented artist. I have no problem buying albums I enjoy, but god damn I really think the price needs to drop. The Foley Room was leaked really far in advance and I am not really sure why that is; I'm also not sure how to take this (A plea to buy the album? Just letting off steam?).

This thread could turn into another discussion of the music industry, but one fact remains, buy albums and see shows!

I saw him on the last show through Seattle, and since he's coming here again in May I am going again - and this time I've arranged a posse (NOTE: he isn't exactly touring every city in the land either). One of us will probably buy a t-shirt. If an artist wants my money, this is far and beyod the best way to get it.

Aside from this there's not much more I can do other than buy his CD's, of which I now own a couple. Ninja Tune is an independent label, so I have no qualms giving them money per se. Actually, I've been slowly rebuilding my CD collection through used CD sales anyway, so some of the major labels have found a way onto my rack again.

If Ninja Tune can't peddle CD's in record stores, than maybe they need to get on the ball and do what a lablel like Six Degrees Records does: sell downloads as well as CD's. I feel bad about his situation, but not bad enough to change my stance on the debate. Tobin, and Ninja Tune as well, need to capitalize on the fact that he is picking up fans in large part because of these downloads, not because his CD's are selling through the roof, and certainly not because his product is being heavily marketed through mainstream outlets, car commercials aside.

It looks like Tobin is simply caught in a transition his label needs to make. I'm very much looking forward to seeing Tobin again, and as the Foley Room is slowly starting to grow on me, I will pick that up as well

There's definitely two sides to this story, and Seerix is completely right when he says that a large part of the people who discover music from small labels do so by downloading it illegally in the first place. At least that's my personal experience, as I bought far more CDs when i was still downloading music illegally from the internet.

the only reason i have a digital copy of the foley room at the moment is because i haven't seen it for sale on a shelf yet.


this is probably one of the most offensive things i've ever read on this site. i can understand admitting to the individual that you've stolen his product once its been released and impossible to find in your area. but to be getting emails for months prior to release from people admitting to scamming your work just seems like a cock slap in the face to me.

i think another thing that's hurting the industry and encouraging kids to download more is that mtv show about where 'rock stars' live. it gives kids the impression that any successful musician is rolling in money which is often not the case.

...and i've always wondered, with established electronic artists such as Amon Tobin, why do they feel the need to send promos out? If the album isn't promo'd out initially, would it ever get leaked to begin with?

all I have to say about this is Foley Room is a damn awesome album

Tobin is big in the electronica scene but not anywhere else. Promos are a part of the engine, I don't know how the system would work without them.

I understand his points completely.

after listening to the disc a few times i have to say i'm only hearing 3 standout tracks. keep your distance / the killer's vanilla / at the end of the day make the disc worth owning though.

the rest is alright even if 'always sounds' like an attempt at getting played in club.

my thoughts on this are as follows:

i'm not sure what tobin's situation is, or the situation of the label that released this record, but, sharing an album on the internet isn't really gonna hurt someone unless that record is the sole source of their income, thus making a followup record completely dependant on the success of the first one. if a label or a musician puts all their "eggs into one basket" per se and expects that to pay their bills, then it's their own damn fault when it falls apart. music is a business, and it's even a generator of some pretty good income...sometimes. my point is that it's not a career and anyone who expects to just do it for their "day job" has something like this coming to wake them up.

again, not saying this was the case with tobin or his label, but it has an awful lot to do with why alot of other labels folded in the last 2 years. people can blame filesharing all they want but my golden rule when it comes to self-releasing something or pressing it through my label is this:

do not release anything unless you can afford to not sell a single copy. that way, if its a total flop and everyone downloads it/no one buys it, then you can just go on with your everyday life. your music is not ruined. labels like infraction and EED, for example, are run by people who have their bills and real-life expenses taken care of BEFORE the label even comes into effect. it then becomes a labor of love, which is what i'd hope all labels were to begin with. just some average people with a little extra capital to put into distributing their idea of good music and good ideas.

/rant

It's at this point that I will once again say that unless it's a huge seller....you don't make money on records sales. In most cases; as a result of recording costs most musicians end up being in debit to labels.


The money is in touring, merchandising and assorted publishing rights....

It's one of the reasons most musicians/bands in genres like Rap and Electronics don't make anywhere as much as those in Rock.