I am not sure if I titled this thread appropriately, maybe underground would have been more appropriate, but I will try and explain what I mean.

I am referring to the period of rap during the late 90s and early 2000s Where MCs like Talib Kweli, Mos Def and Common started to be on the rise; The biggest example would be Rawkus records and what they were putting out. To me this is some of my favorite rap out there and I was just curious to know if anyone else felt the same way and if not, why not?

I love the use of beats to be something different compared to the mainstream; heavy use of jazz samples being my favorite part. The messages that are sent across. On a good song/album you can just feel the thought of the lyrics by the rapper and how much time went into each song. The songs come off soothing and poetic, not useing anger and offensive words to get a rise out of you.

The most important thing to take from this movement is how nobody is trying to be anybody. So many rappers today are playing the part of who they think they should be. But rappers who are involved in this positive rap movement are being themselves and seem to be just happy you took the time to listen.

But positive rappers are the ones who are really trying to be who they think they should be by doing the right thing. Actually, a lot of the very negative rappers are in fact really just being themselves. They really are involved in narcotics distribution and often partake in acts of violence. Look at all those going to jail.

Hip hop is so big that there will always be a lot of variations. It's difficult to make correct assumptions regarding who is actually being honest about their personas.

I'm not hostile to what you're saying though. Sometimes I try to imagine what Coltrane would think about all this nigga kill a nigga shit. I also, wonder if it's just a modern incarnation of the minstrel show.

I like all kinds of hip hop and often the stuff I get the biggest kick out of is the super negative stuff. But still, it's hard not to feel sad about the fact that a large part of the most contemporary African American musical culture is dedicated to themes that help promote the continued destruction of black communities. I just don't let my values override my good taste.

Thats very true, lots of the negative rappers are being true to themselves. But I think for all the ones that are true to themselves there is another that is merely a marketing tactic for some big label, this is especially true for commercial rap and current radio play. I mean come on Lil Wayne has 3 tears on him now, definitely not real. I just think so much of rap now is trying to look as hard as you can.

In no way do I sacrifice values for taste. I do honestly enjoy both sides of the rap world and can't fake that. I mean my favorite all time rapper is Biggie and Wu-tang is definitely up there too. But just like I enjoy most of the faces of rock I also enjoy most of the faces of rap too. I've just found there to be a lot more exploration in terms of themes and beat work in the positive rap world. For example, so many of the more accessible rap needs to be dance able or it just won't float.

And maybe you are bringing up a good point by saying that these rappers aren't being true to themselves and are just doing what they think is right. But I truly believe that the emcees I listen to believe what they are saying.

Dude, if we ever take a road trip together there won't be any fighting over the tunes!

You have great taste.

cheers!

I really don't like much hip-hop with negative lyrics. Swearing is fine but not negative messages. I'd rather listen to songs with either neutral or positive lyrics. I don't want to listen to music which is going to make me feel down. Partly because of this though is why I'm into Australian hip-hop. I guess it's fair to say that they entire genre is underground and there are only a handful or artists which talk about killing and hating etc etc, generally it's about life experiences or how they feel about something. It's the same with a lot of the UK scene too and of course the underground US scene. I can't really stand much commercial hip-hop/rap, let alone commercially aimed music in general.

I agree JustBlaze about Mos Def and Talib Kweli. Mos Def's Black On Both Sides is quite amazing and I guess a drift away from the music that was being played that year. The same can be said for The New Danger (Not really considered Rap by many of his fans). He has evolved each album some people embraced it, others hate him for doing it. I actually enjoyed The New Danger, though it did lack consistency. As for his release this year Tru3 Magic actually wasn't disappointing. He went back to his rapping ways, but it's much darker then BOBS. As for Talib Kweli he hasn't really broke into the mainstream for reasons I wish I knew because he is an amazing artist.

Yeah Mos Def came out swinging with his part in Black Star and then to debut with Black on Both Sides but lately he has definitely fallen off. I need to hear The New Danger since the lineup he collected for that is awesome, even just him and Bernie I would love to see. I got Tru3 Magic and I thought it was pretty bad, he just sounds lazy. Some speculation is going around that he might be preparing something for later this year since he fulfilled his record contract. Still I don't think its any excuse to not put effort into something.

Mos Def does have a cool flow and I think his voice sounds pretty cool too.

Talib had a bit of a downfall there but I think he is getting his act together again with what I've heard on some mix tapes.

As OldSmell and JustBlaze have said, A lot of the rappers that some of you might call "negative" are being true to themselves. I've read posts here criticising Nas in this way despite the many positive aspects his lyrics. In any case, there can be no doubt that he is genuine and has a great love for the art. Various other rappers, too, are true to themselves in making music.

Of course, you will have your fair share of pretenders. But that is the same for any genre with great commercial appeal.