I already know that I will probably be in the minority on this one, but just out of curiosity, am I the only person that was greatly disappointed by the 2004 issue of Brian Wilson's Smile. I'm not going to deny that it is a great accomplishment that the thing came out as a complete piece, but I just felt rather let down by it. It seems to me that Brian Wilson like other aging musicians (Bob Dylan) just cannot sing like they used to. Their voices just arent the same after forty years. I think that this is very evident on Smile. Wilson's voice seems to be nowhere near what it was on 60s classics like Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations. He just does not have the same tone and, not to be too harsh, but at times his voice sounds as if he has a mild mental handicap to it. This is where Smiley Smile comes in. I had always heard music critics give this album a bad name. Even Carl Wilson himself I believe said it was a "bunt instead of a grand slam." Lately though I have become rather fascinated by this album though and find it to be much more interesting than the new Smile that came out in 2004. Is there anybody else out there who agrees with me? By the way does anybody know where to obtain some bootlegs of the original Smile material. I know they used to be posted on the internet but got taken down due to legal action before the new Smile was released. I'd really like to hear some original versions of those songs because I think they are very strong songs but are greatly hindered by the vocal performance on the new album.

lol

What's so funny chiron?

I really like the new version and was just listening to it a few days ago.

I also like the originally released version. It reminds of Village Green Preservation.

Given a choice I'd probably say that I like the older version better. I don't feel as negatively as you about his voice now but it's undeniable that at least some of the tenderness and charm has left.

I don't agree with you about Dylan's voice. One of the appealing things about his new stuff is his aging voice makes him sound more like a 'real' blues man.


You can find the original Smile stuff on soulseek or whatever, just keep checking. It's too bad Mike Love had to be such a dick about it because I'm sure it would have been a great masterpiece if taken to fruition.

BTW, if you haven't already, I recommend checking out the album 'Holland'.

i actually haven't heard the original smile (*kills myself...I guess*) but I absolutely love the version from 04

My expectations for the new Smile were off the chart and thus I was disappointed when I first heard it... But I have been supplied with additional material (bootleg and legal) by perhaps the biggest Smile fan on the planet (Reverend Rock)... And now I have a new appreciation for the completed Smile... I still don't consider it a masterwork, but it is pretty darn good...


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Well, I guess "the biggest SMiLE fan on the planet" should have something to say about this...

First of all, about Smiley Smile. It is a much better album than it normally gets credited as being, precisely because expectations for SMiLE in the mid-60s were so high. It's considered a pretty hip album of its times by today's critics. Actually, it was a lot more "stoned" (quite literally, it turns out) than a lot of the "stoned out" music that got the big press at the time.

In fact, I am fairly convinced at this point that even if SMiLE had been properly finished in January of '67, it would have been a let-down, simply because the expectations for it were so astronomical, and where Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks were going with this music was so very counter-cultural (even counter-counter-cultural in its celebration of American history and music). And it was so very post-rock (which I think is a big part of why many people have trouble appreciating the 2004 completed work as well). Smiley Smile is also a very post-rock album. The only songs that remotely resemble rock of that or any time are "Good Vibrations" and "Gettin' Hungry" (and maybe "Heroes and Villains" in a sense, but not really--it's way too complex).

As for the new SMiLE itself, I think that if your problem is with Brian Wilson's lead vocals, you simply need to get past that and really listen to everything that's going on. SMiLE is much bigger as a creative work than the "sound" of the Beach Boys. That's part of why the Beach Boys weren't totally committed to it at the time of its initial creation.

The "SMiLE sessions" (the stuff available on bootlegs) is not all that revealing vocally, because a lot of tracks (such as what became known as "Roll Plymouth Rock", "A Song for Children", "Child is Father of the Man", and "On a Holiday" to name a few) had either incomplete or no vocal tracks recorded for them. The lyrics to these were for the most part not even written at the time that Van Dyke Parks abandoned the original project ("Roll Plymouth Rock" is a notable exception, but no completed vocal tracks for it exist from the original sessions that we know of).

What the SMiLE sessions do reveal (and this is very important to appreciating just what an artistic achievement the 2004 completion is) is that the basic instrumental arrangements for what became "SMiLE 2004" were entirely in existance by early 1967 (with the exception of a few of the brief linkage sections between certain songs in the finished work), and existed in such a completed form that well over 90 percent of the musical material in the completed SMiLE is vintage, and is presented in a manner that is completely faithful to Brian Wilson's original intentions for the work.

In addition, the sessions reveal that Brian was on such a creative surge at the time that there was enough material for a much larger work than "SMiLE 2004". Brian was experimenting with more than musical ideas (such as ad-lib comedy and making strange sounds with human voices and conventional musical instruments) that perhaps would have resulted in a much wilder project had SMiLE reached fruition in '67.

That said, I think that what Brian did with the completed SMiLE has a much more timeless quality musically than a completed '67 SMiLE would have had. I am definitely convinced that he and Van Dyke Parks succeeded in putting together the very best material from the choices available from those early sessions to form a very cohesive and satisfying final version of SMiLE.

For me, having a fairly thorough knowledge of these 60s recordings only increased my level of satisfaction with the finished product in 2004, and that level of satisfaction has not diminished with me over time. Syd's comments as well would seem to indicate that a working knowledge of these older recordings is at least helpful in appreciating the finished work.

I still hope that eventually, there will be something like a "SMiLE Sessions" box set (or at very least a 2-CD set) released. I think that for musicological/historical reasons alone, such a release is greatly needed. Meanwhile, you just have to dig for available boots to hear the sessions.

4sho

I just noticed this.


Are you kidding? Just what singer do you know whose voice hasn't changed after 40 to 45+ years?


Robert Plant's voice didn't even last 4 years before it changed. He could no longer reach the the high notes that he could easily do before. It was after he and the band came down with the flu and he continued to sing. It did something to his vocal chords.

I have bootlegs were you can hear his voice cracking while he sang.


Dylan is actually singing better than he did for most of the 80's and 90's. He's also no longer mumbling when he sings live, as he did then. Drugs being the major cause of his singing problems and mumbling.


A major issue is that most rock singers don't know how to properly sing and as a result, they end up causing damage to their vocal chords. That's before you add in whatever lifestyle issues they're going through.


P.S. Brian Wilson has had Schizophrenia for about 35 to 40 years. He still hears voices to this day.

Considering what Brian has been through, I thought that his voice was in great shape when I saw him at the Hollywood Bowl a few years ago.

The classic "whine" in his voice is pretty much gone, though.

Wilson lost the "whine" back in the 70s after he started snorting mountains of coke and smoking heavily. When he made his big "comeback" with the BBs in the 70s, he had a really hoarse out of tune baritone voice. His singing voice has got better since the 70s and 80s, though.