This is nothing new. I am not an original person. It's on your ass to deal with that.

Anyway, I can testify to seeing the word 'alternative' turned from a rather disparaging term in the late 80's (if you were alternative, it basically meant that you pertained to a kiddie pool of unlistenable art-fags) to an industry-slut buzzword in the mid-90's, whored around to point where now it now means 'not Britney.' Fuck, anything is alternative, or indie, now.

I think it comes down to a really annoying truth; you can't try to be cool by acting 'not cool.' If you get all 'twee,' or 'fag-fop' or 'retro' or whatever, then sooner or later everything will come around and you will just be another face. So basically, is the central premise of 'alternative' music, culture, etc., lame and bullshit? I mean we (by 'we' I mean everyone with sense enough to understand why alternative shit is cool in the first place) start at the principle that the mainstream is fucked, and we want to go elsewhere, but isn't that essential exclusionism a bad thing?



I'll just give one example. Dinosaur Jr.; the basic idea was combining asshole-driven hard rock cliches with a smartass mentality. Kind of like, "we can play like the pros, but we don't give a shit--we're in it for US." But then, come 1995, every jerkoff 'ragged grunge' band on MTV is doing the same thing.

So is alternative music just bogus escapism for elitists?

yeah pretty much. But Id rather listen to crappy elitist music than crappy mainstream music anyday. As the music confirms something about myself, and its at least interesting on the whole.

I really dont give a shit if the term is overused nowadays.

It`s the hard truth. I can`t help cach myself with exclusionism as you say, basically every single time a band I 'discover' gets the hype. As long as you don`t look down on the bunch in the inclusivism track, what more can you do?

'bogus escapism' or just escapism sounds about right, combined with honest interest. What`s the good alternative to that? Probably not "I like all music, really". It`s probably just the general nature of being interested in something.

It's comments like these, joe, that make me wonder why you don't listen primarily to traditional folk music and acoustic country blues.

Good music always works.

Of course it has to be good. I also believe you would have layed avant-garde to rest if it became the new thing amongst hipsters and teen brats.

I kinda see it this way...

as long as the music is good it doesn't matter wether it is mainstream or indie...
If you don't want to listen to mainstream music because you're against the fact that they get all commercial and everything...then you're as bad as people who only listen to mainstream music...people who want to be alternative and want to pretend like they know a lot about music...

some people don't like a song/album because they say it is way to overplayed...why don't people just put that aside...if it's good, then it's good...

I hate it the most when people aren't openminded about music, wether it is towards mainstream or indie...
if you say you're interested in music, and music is very important in your life...then talk about the music...and don't pretend...

but isn't it logical that you get bored of and/or annoyed by songs that are overplayed?

Not true. I love all good music, just because I tend to gravitate towards the unappreciated doesn't mean that I avoid the popular just because it's popular. My collection of mainstream rock & roll is pretty significant, in fact. Now, that doesn't mean I have Alien Ant Farm, but I'll listen to something if it's good and popular. Granted, I don't listen to a lot of new popular music -- most of it comes from the '60s and '70s, but I enjoy Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Rage Against The Machine, System of a Down, Tool, etc. Hell, I even enjoy the first 2 Korn albums. In most cases, I don't even know how many records a band has sold when I listen to them, and it's certainly not a factor in my liking them or not.

Actually, I'd love it if more people listened to what I listen to. Why do you think I spend so much time on here???