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Old 11-30-2005, 04:20 PM   #41
Satchmo8101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seerix
That's a good point. If they really care so much about the high art that is this video, you would think they'd be taking measures and buying their own space. I guess considering that, the other issue is what rights they have. I know that labels get their fingers in everything regarding a song/album.

Perhaps it's possible that this video that was shot is again owned by the label because the song is owned by the publishers? So if they made a video that can't be shown on standard channels, and then the label has legal rights to the video so it also can't be shown independently, then I could see a sort of "trap."

Of course that still doesn't excuse the obvious: the people involved knew it was going to either be censored or rejected entirely. But if we assume for a moment, that these people actually thought they were releasing some sort of important pop art, then it is indeed possible that they could be screwed.

I do remember there was an issue with Fiona Apple's album being trapped in some limbo a while back, like the label would not let it get released and she couldn't legally release it herself.

All the more reason to get one's own label.


With new bands it's the labels who front the cost of the video, which like the recording costs are paid back from record sales.

Groups don't make much money from the record sales, any real profit is from touring, merchandise sales, and most importantly publishing rights.

A great many groups end up being in debit to the labels, because of advances, recording and video costs.

I give you TLC. They sold 20 million+ records with CrazySexyCool, toured the world that year, and sold lots of merchandise.

However, after paying the labels any advance money, recording and video costs (combined the videos for Waterfalls and Unpretty cost $3 million+), managers fees, attorney fees, etc...., etc...., yada, yada....they each grossed $35,000 for the year, and were in debit for $3.5 million. Leading them to declare bankruptcy.



It's even worse in the rap, were they don't even write their own music to make money on publishing rights.

In rap, the only people making real money are the labels, producers and those real musicians whose music might be sampled. They don't really bring in much money on the road, since Rap really isn't a genre that works on the road. That's why you see these rap tours with so many acts together, which cuts into any profits.

Rap fans see all these rappers in the video's and think they're really rollin'. When in fact, everything in that video is leased, and that includes the jewelery and Benjamin's.

Only a handful of rappers make any real money. You see them going to these award shows, and most of what they're wearing is borrowed for the night and once again that includes the jewelery. It's no different than film stars, in that way. Almost everything they're wearing is borrowed for the evening. They're nothing more than walking billboards for the designers.


And if you're going to sample anyone's music, get permission first!

Verve's Bittersweet Symphony is the biggest case in point, so far. It sold millions, but the group never bothered to get permission from the Stones for the sample they lifted. The Stones got almost all the money, because of that.
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Last edited by Satchmo8101 : 11-30-2005 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:29 PM   #42
Seerix
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That's too bad about the Verve. I actually liked their earlier material (their debut EP and A Storm In Heaven), but I didn't much care for the song that "made" them, or any later material for that matter. To boot, they got very little in return...
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:58 PM   #43
Satchmo8101
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I just noticed the comment about Fiona Apple. It's an Urban Myth that it was the label holding back the record.

It was Fiona herself that kept the original version from being released.

The original version was produced by Jon Brion. Fiona and Epic, didn't care for the final results. It was then shelved. That version was leadked by someone, with some tweaks made to the tracks.

The fans started demanding that Epic "Free Fiona" so to speak. After about 2 years of this, she went back into the studio. With co-production being now done by Mike Elizondo and Brian Kehew. Two of the tracks were those originally done by Brion.

Now, all the publicity helped record sales in the end. Although, it wasn't a calculated plan as with the Strokes video. However, neither the label nor Fiona came clear on who was keeping the record from being released. Thus giving it the David vs. Golith feel.



P.S. Please stop sending me pms, asking how and where to send Demo's or where your band is playing.


I now return you to your reguraly scheduled programming.
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:06 PM   #44
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Heh, so now the one non-negative thing I had to say about Fiona Apple has been taken away from me. Oh, the horror
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:29 PM   #45
Satchmo8101
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Originally Posted by Seerix
Heh, so now the one non-negative thing I had to say about Fiona Apple has been taken away from me. Oh, the horror


Erm, ummmm, the label keeps her locked up out of th sun, and only gives her water, and 2 month old bread crumbs. That way giving her that Heroin Chic look, she has.

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Old 11-30-2005, 05:40 PM   #46
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That's true. I haven't actually seen a picture of Fiona lately, so I forgot that she does indeed have one important and useful quality.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:22 PM   #47
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All this over that video? Weak...
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:50 PM   #48
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yea I wouldn't worry about it too much Leah, I just saw the video on AOL Music or something, and it showed the gay action and everything. The second video you posted, I mean. If MTV isn't playing it, who cares, they're retarded.

and even though this is obviously a marketing scheme (they leak track after track of the new album on the fansites), I dig the strokes. I've always loved their sound and they're cool dudes. As for this video, even though its NYC hipster heaven, it's fun to watch.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:51 PM   #49
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what happened to the strokes sounds? they sound like a metal-wannabe band now
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:23 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Seerix
All the more reason to get one's own label.


or... all the more reason for people (especially artistes) to READ THE FINE PRINT BEFORE SIGNING A CONTRACT.

i feel absolutely no compassion towards these poor tortured souls who have their art compromised by the evil, evil corporations they signed with.

if someone is too concerned with maintaining their artistic integrity to learn a thing or two about business then they deserve to feel the burn of the corporate bum rush.

(i tried to have that fine print bit in a larger font but it looks like ass )
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