I suggest you read my posts again and then point out where I said Yes or anyone in Yes was wanking off. I also not only happen to be a fan of Tales of Topographic Oceans, I saw them perform the entire thing twice back in 1974.


My comments about wanking was directed to those I specifically mentioned and their ilk.



As I said, you can be complex and not be wanking.

1. Yes, I know. I am still working on overcoming my shyness.

2. Nothing....I was only commenting on AnyoneWithEyes' implication on how wanking in music should be appreciated. It just happened to be in a Yes related thread.

I'm a bit confused now. Because you responded to my post, I just figured the remarks in general were directed at Yes, because both the thread and my post were at least partially about Yes / ToTO. The post I was responding to, I thought, was basically saying that Yes were 'wanking for the sake of wanking' as you put it, and that made the music bad, hehe. Sorry that I misunderstood you.

I don't think that 'wanking for the sake of wanking', in and of itself, should be appreciated. However, if the result sounds great, why not? If it sounds rotten (like virtually all of Petrucci's stuff does to me - I'm placing a blinking light here that says 'Personal Preference'), then I sure don't appreciate it. Very often, music where the entire focus is virtuosity ends up just sounding like noise to me. But when it turns out good, I have no problem listening to it, even if I'm pretty sure the musicians were just messing around.

There is no question you completely misunderstood what I was talking about there. Satchmo was explained it more eloquently since.


Bingo.

Since it has been about 20 years since I listened to this album, I downloaded it and gave it a good honest ear this weekend. I also snagged Relayer, and I'll get to it later this week.

My opinion is completely unchanged on the first two songs. Completely. They seem to meander with no real purpose and are probably about as bad as their version of "America" in this regard, stretching out lyrics here and never getting to the point there. This is where Linkin Park has an advantage here; I would have listened to two of their 3-minute pop numbers less than halfway through the first song and already moved on to something better.

The third song about the Giants starts off very well; I had begun to wonder if they even remembered the "rock" part of "progressive rock." It was nice to be acitvely interested in the music after 40 minutes of enduring it. It gets bogged down in itself much like the other pieces, but for the most part it is enjoyable. There's a part in the middle somewhere that caused me to stop paying attention and I don't like the way it ends at all, but at least it gave me hope.

The final song is one that I actually do like. It is well put together and it sustained my interest throughout. I have to give credit where credit is due. I have no idea why a band with this much creative talent could actually only get one really good song together in four tries. This song is not as good as "Close To The Edge," but it is enjoyable in its own way. I mention CTTE because I invoked it every minute on the minute throughout the entire album and nearly switched to it multiple times. This is why it took so long to check it out again; I already knew there was a better Yes album to listen to (four, actually).

One and a half stars out of four, which corresponds to the one and a half songs I liked. Better than I gave it credit for earleir in this thread. See if you can get someone to give you a discount and only sell you the second disc.

Yes, I must have. I thought you meant all music that is difficult ends up sounding bad. That was what Satch sounded like to me, too. To clarify, this is generally how it works for me:
complicated music = who cares
aesthetically pleasing music = okay if I'm in an elivator
emotionally moving music = good
complicated + emotionally moving music = great
all three = fantastic
all three + surprising changes = my all-time favorites

All I can say about your experience with Tales from Topographic Oceans is that it's completely different from mine when I listen to it. I love the landscapes of sound on that album. For me, it's like a flow of changing moods that I find to be extremely moving emotionally. I think my favorite part may be the first 2 minutes of 'The Revealing Science of God' - the chant-like vocal buildup in particular. There's very little that comes off as mechanical or overly-technical to me. The long percussion section in 'Ritual' is the low point for me, but when I hear this performed live I think it's great (why, I don't know). I do not know whether Yes intended ToTO to be a technical masterpiece or an expression of something inside themselves, but I do know that the effect on me is an emotional one - not the 'Wow, they can sure play their instruments, but I can't stand listening to the result' effect (I get that from listening to speed-metal bands a lot... and epic fantasy metal bands like Dragonforce).

Anyway, the short version is, I doubt anyone will be able to know if they'd like ToTO based on what they liked off of Close To The Edge. I love both albums, but there are others here who love CttE and don't like ToTO. Maybe the music genome project can help explain it...

I am very sensitive about music. I get ticked off quite easily when someone doesn't like a band I like... so if I got testy, I'm sorry. I am surrounded by way too many people who listen to nothing but the top 40... and :shudder: The Eagles... and who think that if music doesn't get played on the radio, it's automatically bad. Heaven help me. Perhaps some of this also stems from frustration with musicians who can't play anything but major chords in 4/4.

I had the third and fourth sides of the album playing last nightwhile I sorted through a random pile of Magic cards to give to my nephew. It went by nicely - this was the part of the album I actually liked anyway. I think that's about all I am going to get out of this album and I am not going to ask it to do any more but go by nicely while I am busy focusing on something else. I can probably find use for the first two sides the next time I have to do some housecleaning or bookshelf reorganizing. I think my bigest issue is the rhythm section. Chris Squire is less interesting than earlier releases and Alan White, while very good in his own right, is not exactly Bill Bruford.

The third and fourth side are noticably better than Relayer, however. "The Gates of Delirium" is decent enough, but the second side loses its way early and often.


I don't know a single person that likes even half of my collection. Not even here.