its occuring to me that essentially i really only appreciate 'traditional pop songs.' my favorite songs are just about always the pop numbers, embellished with the given genre's stylistic trappings, but the pop ones nonetheless. the only yes songs i like are the POP yes songs.

point being, for such a markedly progressive album as 'tales,' i probably shouldnt have commented.

It has many, many flashes of brilliance. Very "on again, off again". I think it's a great album overall, esp. compared to stuff like "Tormato". But I never seem to reach for anything but "Close to the Edge" when I'm in the mood.

Again, some of the stuff on "Works" and "Works Vol II" rubs me much more the wrong way

I guess that's the thing about Yes. They released so many bad albums that the not-very-good ones compare favorably to the majority of their career...

Until recently I also grabbed Close to the Edge when I'm in this style of Yes mood. However, about a year ago I listened to the entire "Tales" and now grab it when I'm the mood. Could be that I've heard "Close to the edge" too many times.

In regards to "pre·ten·tious ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-tnshs)
adj.
Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.
Making or marked by an extravagant outward show; ostentatious. See Synonyms at showy. "

Someone please give me some quotes from Yes or ELP. Where
a. they state they are the greatest musicians in the world.
b. they only made these so called pretentious albums to impress people with their music ability.
c. they mention that other bands suck because they play easy music
or
d. they didn't have fun recording these albums because they were too difficult to play.

sorry never have gotten prog bands pretentious idea? personally I've always felt that people who call these bands pretentious are actually the ones who are music snobs. I found most of the prog bands people bitch about were actually trying to make music that excited them. Isn't that what music is about?

Hey what do I know I think classical music is fun too

It isn't about quotes from Yes or ELP. The music is there to tell the story. Works will not ever go away, and neither will Love Beach, Relayer, Six Wives, or TOTO. Saying that everything these bands did was "from the heart" is like saying that Yngwie Malmsteen prefers passion over technique, and just so happens to create solos that sound like little more than scalar exercises played at 100 mph.

I do believe there is a lot of excitement to be found in early recordings by both bands, and that exploring music in the manner in which they chose can be rewarding both clinically and spiritually. But at some point, where the songs say "look what a great musician I am" instead of "this is my soul", that label of pretentiousness applies. Vanilla Fudge, for example, stretched out a Supremes song to eight minutes, and that is literally all anyone needs to know about them. No prog band in their right mind would ever actually admit to having fallen into that trap.

^ Wow. I can already see I'm going to disagree with you almost all the time... oh well...

I personally don't really care whether a musician is making the music to show off or just because they think it sounds neat, or tells a story. If I enjoy listening to it, I'm glad they made it... period. And I enjoy Tales of Topographic Oceans. There is not a 30-second stretch on that whole album that I don't like. So I don't really care if they were showing off... and it's not like they were trying to play these intricate pieces and failed, they succeeded. Why should a musician hide their talent? I have never understood this attitude. It's like saying Mozart shouldn't have written his Requiem because it was too long and complicated, he was just showing off... Or saying that Opera is bad because it's too long and complicated, it's just a bunch of amazing singers showing off how fast and high/low they can sing.

I don't get this attitude...

TFTO is actually one of Yes' most straight-foward albums in terms of the actual playing. The only thing that makes it ponderous is the sheer length of the thing. But it holds up really well over repeated listenings, I think. The Rhino remastered edition is one that anyone who was disappointed in the original should hear, because the sound is light-years better than any other release of the album, vinyl or CD.

Complex and wanking off for the sake of wanking are two different things. How does Mozart even get mentioned in this conversation? DA MAN had more talent in a single quark of his body than anyone being discussed in this thread ever dreamed of having.



John Petrucci and many other wanking guitar players are more technically proficient than Jimi Hendrix, but Petrucci and everyone in Dream Theater and the others of that ilk are about as intersting and lifelike as a corpose and Hendrix is DA MAN.

Hell, even Eric "Snoozehand" Clapton has more life/soul/heart than Petrucci, Malmsteen, Vai and there ilk....and everyone knows how much I care for Snoozehand, especially post Duane Allman.

Gee whiz, Satch, sometimes I wish you'd speak out with a little more conviction...





But what does this have to do with a Yes album?

I sure agree with you about Petrucci. I personally can't stand his playing or Dream Theater's music. However, if someone enjoys Yes' music in general, ToTO is probably a perfectly good album for them, and possibly one of the best albums in their discography. I also disagree that they actually are just wanking off for the sake of it (most of the time... 'Sound Chaser' makes me shudder)... I've rarely heard more emotion put into a piece of music than when Steve Howe breaks out the steel guitar. But to each his own, eh? Maybe you and I just don't hear the same things when we listen to a piece of music.

Mozart is/was indeed awesome. He got mentioned by me because I find his music to be both extremely complex and enjoyable, and I wanted to know what would make his okay in others' eyes, while so many people seem to revile other music that I also find to be complex and enjoyable.