I am just simply refering to those recordings as an example of his "freer" moments." Interesting about the Leo release because it seems that they react in a fasion of the improv aesthetic.

That's because from what I understand, Braxton comprimised a bit.

Okay, that makes sense.

What do you guys consider the deffinition of free jazz?

Free Jazz is music that continues the Bop tradition of improvisation in relation to a defined, pre-planned musical structure, but seeks to push it further. In previous styles, musicians would improvise in adherance to certain chordal, modal, or melodic boundaries, but when Free Jazz emerged, soloists -- or even a whole group -- were free to improvise freely of any boundaries or restrictions, although the element of a compositional support was still evident.

Free Improvisation is music that is completely improvised, on the spot, free of any sort of pre-planned structures or safe-gaurds to assist the improvisors. Any sort of theme in this style would be completely random and a product of chance.

I await Satchmo's approval of my definitions!

It's the Christmas season, and Scrooge Satchmo is busy making a list of those deserving the honor of being fired. There is also that list of those to foreclose on and put in the streets. I haven't made up my mind between making D-Day on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.


Bah Humbug.


Ok, what was the question?

Seba's response is ok.


I would add that Avant is a more structered form of Free Jazz. Songs are still composed.



Free jazz still used heads and licks to structure the improvised material. Even some of these have some form of composition.



Some examples of each sub-genre.


Avant

Coltrane - A Love Supreme
Cecil Taylor - Jazz Advance
Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch
Sun Ra - Jazz in Silhouette



Free Jazz

Ornette - Free Jazz
Coltrane - Ascension
Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity
David S. Ware - Flight of I
Cecil Taylor - Unit Structures


Free Improv

Peter Brotzmann - Maching Gun
Evan Parker - at the Vortex
Cecil Taylor - One Too Many Salty Swift and Not Goodbye (One of the few that have done all three.
AMM - everything, these guys don't even talk to each other before and after a recording.



Ok, now back to those lists.


Scrooge Satchmo

Have fun!

And thanks for bringing up the fact that I forgot to define Avant-Garde Jazz.

I've always thought of it as being almost as highly structured as Swing or Ragtime in some cases, but using very unconventional / experimental compositional ideas influenced by modern classical composers and whatever other influences they could get their hands on.

Not to suggest that the definition provided by the superior prick was lacking in any way...

oh well all jazz is good. didn't know there was a big tech differance but oh well. i have been doing a little free improv work myself and its a lot of fun if you have people who have good pitch. its not to hard to stay together, especially if you play with them a lot because then they get a good sence of the structures you like to build off. and it the definition thing is not big deal, oops

Don't let 'em fool ya, kid... You were right the first time: It's NOT a big deal. Somebody PLEASE crack a freaking window...it got stuffy in here again. Genres and sub-genres, catagories and schmatagories...it's all air sculpture, Clyde..cats pushing air around in different directions No, you can't make a mistake. Get off yer tippy toes. Ain't no hallowed ground here.