I think it's a sensibility thing.

If you and I go to the Museum together, I'll spend a lot of time looking at my favorite abstract art. You'll find the art you enjoy and pass up the stuff you don't get.

I really think it's as simple as that.
It aint your cup of tea, no sweat.

Now, for me, the sensibilities are just GOLD.
He likes Free Jazz and Punk and Raymond Scott and all sorts of goodies that I like but he whacks them all together in his own furious speed addled way.

I think he's great.
But then, I think splothces and car doors are 'art'.

How about urinals?

I've been getting shit for my Duchamp avatar...people seem to think I'm glorifying the finer elements of the male restroom...

...but I completely agree on what you said of Zorn's work, and I'll add my own comments later, when I feel like writing up my lengthy defense of his music, but for a short, sweet reply to this thread, your comments work perfectly!

my library has every single Stockhausen cd ever I think.

They bought the like 100 cd box set he put out.

I really, really, really, need to move...I don't think I've ever even seen a CD at a public library before...let alone a 100 CD box-set of Stockhausen!

well it is the Conservatory's music library.

I just get to use it since I'm a member of the University that runs the conservatory.

How is "Your favorite art" any different from "the art I enjoy"? Oh, I see...you're saying I don't like modern art. Well, I don't think J. Zorn and Philip Glass represent the apogee of human creativity. I don't know how much about me you can really extrapolate from my Zorn statement...apparantly a lot!

I meant for my post to be sort of self-deprecating...I didn't want it to cause an "I'm against abstraction in art" thing. I singled him out as an artist, I'm not talking about "new-music" in general. Personally, I don't consider Zorn that "abstract." I think he's a little too obvious...more or less just another rock star. I get the same feeling from Michael Haneke's films (which eerily enough, feature Zorn's music sometimes!). You can just feel the pretense! The purpose is the audience's reaction and not the creative process itself. I like music for it's own sake in any genre. I'm not interesting in frightening the blue hair rinse faction.

One thing's for damn sure, John Zorn's music is not beyond my understanding. I don't like John Tesh either, but is that because I don't "get it" or because I "get it" a little too well?

Avant-garde art is a reaction against the blind worship of tradition. The dada movement was parasitic. It's nothing but a reaction to the way people thought at the time. That's fine and everything, but you have to honest and admit that even though it was a very powerful, influential movement then, now all we have are these people talking about how they love to look at toilets and tires when that wasn't the point of the whole thing in the first place.

Most people that are into "abstract art" usually aren't any better than their stuffy counterparts. They have no actual understanding of art, i.e., can't produce it convincingly for themselves. They're intrigued by the prospects of being in some exclusive clique. It's yet another version of the same snob. Hippies against the squares. Dammit that's boring. You have to react against the avant-garde to be avant-garde...it's not really a spectator sport.

So is it wrong to show some discernment? Does everyone have to support anything presented as avant-garde like it's some religion or sacred tradition? I don't listen to stuff because I sympathize with a certain movement...and I don't see how that would be any different from being a neo-classicist. I have no choice but to evaluate each artist individually.

I've always seen Zorn as more gimmick and less music. I was hoping Seba would give me some input on what Zorn's best stuff is so I could re-evaluate my opinion. Hint!

Anyway, at some point, car doors become the corpse of tradition as well.

I discussed this thread with Seba and he "suggested" that I respond. The result of being made a Mod and given keys to the Executive Bathroom.

I really don't have the time to get into details for this thread, but from this list and your lack of taste fo Zorn's Punk/Noise phase, my recommendation would be Masada & Voodoo.

But anyone that is a fan of Masada and knows their Jazz history, will tell you it's basically the Jewish version of Ornette Coleman's classic Atlantic Recordings.

I will also add that appears you're confusing Zorn's Punk/Noise phase with his Jazz/Avant phase. Zorn is a lot like Anthony Braxton in that they both have so many different phases and styles. And both have fans that like and don't like different phases. I know huge Braxton fans that want nothing to do with his Ghost Trance Music phase.

Everyone of us has his or her own tastes. What works for some doesn't for others.

I just remembered that I somewhat discussed Zorn in a previous thread.


http://www.radiomute.com/musicthread10629.html

actually Roivas, I was just saying that you like what you like.
that's all.

Thanks Satchmo. I read the BBC3 thing on Masada. Okay, well, I'll just start checking things out and see what grabs me.

I like and dislike free jazz. I know it's just sour grapes, though. I have the O. Coleman complete Atlantic recordings and I play 'em often enough.

I somehow know a little about Masada (prolly from BBC3).

Thanks everyone for responding. Sorry I was abrasive, I guess I was trying to speed up the response.