These days, monkfish, you're absolutely right that Joe Public doesn't care who wrote the songs (at least in the States). But it wasn't that way 40 years ago, and I happen to be among those who think it would be a very good idea to turn the clocks backwards 40 years when it comes to this particular matter.

Not that anyone cares what I think...after all, I'm only a songwriter...

only a songwriter?!?!?! songwriters are one the most important people in the world!!! screw presidents and prime ministers...

I agree, Rev. It would be really nice if we could take the music industry back to a time when it was fuelled by the artists love for music, but, like I've said before, big business will not let us do that, which is a great shame..............

yeah, im a songwriter but not an artist, yet anyway.

I agree that I wish there were more songwriters that were also singers and performers around these days, but it just seems to be about looks and persona and not the ability to write and craft good songs and music anymore.

I wish there was more songwriters who also performed their own music, and less 'talent' that have no role in the creation process, they are just there to look pretty onstage and sing.

Personally, I think the craft of songwriting hit it's peak in the late sixties and will continue to decline. Even though they weren't "famous", the financial renumeration was great as well as the prestige within the industry. Also,those guys like Hal David and Jimmy Webb would never use "near rhymes" such as "line" and "nice"...and they placed every word right on the beat.

It's just a shame that when any industry, you see i'm calling it 'industry', that's part of the problem, evolves things get so specialized. You have 'engineers', 'producers', 'songwriters', 'background vocalists', 'session musicians', etc, etc. The music looses that wholeness to it when the band played all those roles. It's all so disconnected, more technical, less emotional, less depth. It's a sad state of affairs.

NDF, you just don't have a clue what you're talking about here. You think Motown in the 60s was a "sad state of affairs"??? You're just about altogether alone if you think that!!!

You think the Monkees performing Carole King and Gerry Goffin's "Pleasant Valley Sunday" or "Porpoise Song" with producers and session musicians helping to create the magic is "disconnected", "technical", "less emotional", "less depth", lacking "wholeness"??? Or the Byrds doing outside writer Bob Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man" with session musicians??? Or all those Paul Revere and the Raiders records that were written by Brill Building genuises and played by session musicians??? Those records rocked like mad!!! Those songs were masterpieces!!!! Clean out your ears, man!!!

Lots of the greatest records of the 60s had all these things happening that you accuse of robbing music of its soul, and it didn't hurt them at all. It's not the specialization that has ruined it nowadays; it's the lack of immagination and creativity among all the above: producers, songwriters, singers, and the entire industry monster. But just because today's industry have totally screwed it up doesn't mean that the specialization of talents can't result in great music. It most certainly can, and did in earlier eras. Back in the 60s, it was the specialization of talents that made the music great in many cases, not the other way around.

I really get tired of people saying that non-performing songwriters are always heartless hacks. That's simply not true. Nobody who really knows the music of the 60s, or respects the pop songwriting of the early 20th century (which I definitely do) would ever say such an ill-informed, completely inaccurate thing. I'm really getting tired of all this ignorant chatter. That's all it is...just pure ignorance.

I was talking about today's evolved version, with boy bands that come in to represent a look. They have a dance coach, they have songwriters who come in, they have engineers, producers, image consultants. Which makes music a much more artificial event because it looses alot of it's spontaneity. No ignorance here, but I DO THINK you really don't know what I AM TALKING about. For the second time in this thread.

I wasn't even referring to songwriters in isolation but you took offense in that manner. Don't be so defensive about it and look at the big picture of my point. No need to have a chip on your shoulder.