Why not John Petrucci ?
He is like the reverse of a Jazzman who puts some rocky sound. He is a rocker who
puts some Jazzy phrasing.

Moondog

This is why I added an "other" option...I didn't pretend to offer every single avant-garde guitarist in a single poll...only what I could think of at the time!

But you're right; Rowe would have been someone to include...my apologies.

Petrucci eh? he's pretty good yes, Dream Theater style

and Seba, check your pm's

Moondog, while I do enjoy your pics (( both are very competent axemen )) I'm sorry to say that they are quite far from being Avant-Garde (( in my opinion )).

Personally, I wouldn't really call them very original within the rock/jazz spectrum, let alone considerable as beyond the constraints of traditional musical idioms as is essential to the Avant-Garde. As you noted, they are both more within the fusion/prog-rock realm, which was experimental during its infancy in the late '60s, but by the time Al Di Meola had made contributions (( and certainly by the time Petrucci began recording )) these musicians were really just going with the flow, as it were, rather than forging a new path/direction for music.

Petrucci is a very fast player and capable of writing some nice complex guitar arrangements, but he's really not very original, mostly an Yngwie Malmsteen for the '90s metal crowd with more diverse prog-rock influences ((including Al Di Meloa, actually)) As for Di Meola, he's more original than Petrucci, but still doesn't stand out in my mind as being any more vital than McLaughlin or Coryell...and not really avant-garde...

...all that said, remember that I do like both artists, just not sure they belong here. I'm going to try and make an Avant-Garde FAQ sticky thread in the next week to help people with posting here; basic ideas/conventions of avant-garde music and what can be included for discussion here...just to help clarify any confusions...

Yes, ..., humm, you should start with a thread, Avant-garde, is it music?

In fact, I'm really sorry of my ignorance in that matter. I just take a look to the winner of
your contest : Fred Frith and listened to Rivers and Tides album samples (Winter &
winter, part I, II, III, IV, V). I'm happy to come back to my Sonny Rollins album.

I found a Website where they explained the scientific categorization of music from genre to
style to the artists who met these criteria. I found that you may have 30 genres of music
that you can combine with 416 styles.

Sorry I don't buy that.

At first glance, I thought it was a thread for avant-garde in the sense of visionary and
originality, like Beethoven was, Bach, Mahler, ...
Hendrix was ahead of his time because he did things with his guitar with so little
technology. And there's not a tune where you can find his sustain, distorsion, feedback, etc. today.

Again sorry I feel




Moondog

Relax, Moondog...you're not expected to be an expert in avant-garde music to post here (( I sure as hell don't know everything )); part of the fun about avant-garde music is determining what is and isn't "avant-garde"...it makes for great discussion! And if you accept its definition literally, than yes, artists such as Beethoven could be considered Avant-Garde, relative to their time, but the term really wasn't used to describe "cutting edge" music until the first quarter of the 20th century, so I tend to only discuss 20th century artists...

...as for Avant-Garde representing visionary and orignal concepts, I tend to steer clear of labeling artists "avant-garde" if they tend to deal primarily in the familiar, even if they have introduced new concepts; for example, while Hendrix was innovative from a technical standpoint in his guitar playing, his song structures were firmly grounded in R&B, Jazz, and Rock (( offering a unique hybrid of them, but not so much so that I feel he would be "Avant-Garde" )) In my mind, Avant-Garde music is such that follows its own path in such a manner as to be unclassifiable as anything but Avant-Garde...but this is a difficult thing to determine and is largely subjective...and my personal opinion on Al Di Meloa and John Petrucci is such that they are not Avant-Garde, but you're free to try and convince me.

Just remember, you're not expected to be totally knowledgeable to post here, none of us are full-blown music "experts" (( unless you're Satchmo ))...

...by the way, you're already in love with a major Avant-Garde musician...Moondog was very Avant-Garde for his time!

Done


Humm no I’m not. In fact I’m nut beside him and a lot of others.
But I’m not a pessimist, it is just that I have worked a lot in the last 10 years, that I was
completely music “Unplugged�.


Well about Al Di Meola, he is not “Avant-garde� compared to what I have heard! But, as a
guitarist he is one of the example to follow, that means he is ahead, so Avant-Garde

Now as a composer he is too, for me he is far ahead a lot of others, since 30 years !!!

For Jimi Hendrix, he was Avant-garde in the meaning of this topic. I have some records of
what he did in 1964, and it’s pretty weird. Pure experimentation.



This is a paradox. Moondog has written all his music. Because it was !
It’s easy to pretend that one is Avant-Garde, only time can speak. Moondog composed his
music in the 50s, 60s, 70s, … and he is not appreciated yet to the merit he deserves.


Moondog

...voted for Keiji Haino and would nominate his utterly essential 1980 album Watashi Dake? as an example of the amazing avant-garde-ification of his ability to coax & wrestle anything he wants from a piece of wood with strings.

http://www.radiomute.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=60

Wow, thanks for that! In my birth town too! My parents moved away when I turned 1½, but still! I recall he played with Fushitsusha in London years ago. I missed that one, something which I regret bitterly to this day.